Champions of Poker

I have two different situations that I have seen come up and I want to know why they were ruled upon differently.

First, I had two friends in a NL Holdem game and both held A-K. One of my friends was in the big blind and the other in middle position. A king hit the flop and both had their chips in by the river. When the hands were both turned over, one player held the ace of spade and king of clubs and the other held the king of diamonds and ALSO held the ace of spades. The floor man was called over and he ruled that the bets and the blinds would be retuned to their rightful owners.

A couple of days later, my friend was in a big hand with another opponent. He held pocket sixes and the flop fell As-6d-3c. My friend checked and his opponent went all-in. My friend called and showed his set. His opponent flipped over his hand and said, “Well, this won’t count anyway” and showed As-2c. The floor was called over and the floor asked when the players went all-in. The dealer told the floor that they went all-in after the flop. The floor looked at the player that had the duplicate aces of spades and said, “You are out of luck unless you make a straight.” The board paired on the turn and the player with the duplicate ace went ballistic. The floor man told the player that he know what he was trying to pull and he wasn’t going to stand for it. The player tried to take a swing at the floor man, and was subsequently subdued and removed from the casino by security.

It seems to me that both the situations were the same. What is the difference?

Jacob

Jacob,

The situations are not the same. In the first situation, both players had the ace of spades as their hole card and as a result, they did not know that duplicate cards were out. The deck was fouled and the bets were returned.

In the second situation, the player with the duplicate ace of spade knew that the deck was fouled and tried to take advantage of the situation. He was trying to angle shoot, and in this case, it can also be considered cheating. In many casinos, if a player continues in a hand after they know that the deck or hand is fouled, then they have no recourse. In some cases, their hand is dead. The floor man was entirely correct in punishing this player. Had the player been ahead with the aces, he would have tried to take the pot. When he found out he was behind, he tried to angle shoot his way out of paying up.

Also, I would have a chat with management and let them know about the fact that multiple decks have showed up fouled in the course of a couple of days. Something sounds fishy there.

I was playing in a tournament the other day when the following scenario occurred. I was in late position and looked down to pocket eights. I have a stack that was beginning to get short and I had decided that if the action got to me, I was going to shove. I was waiting for a couple of players to act and after a while, I said that I was going to go all-in and that the players should probably just get out of the way. The player just before me then moved all-in. This play is a very tight player and would shove with no worse than A-K. Since I had said that I was going to move all-in, I figured him on a bigger hand.

I decided to go ahead and fold. After I folded, the table blew up at me. They told me that since I had declared my action, I must bet. I told them politely that it was not my turn to act and that verbal bets are not binding unless action is on me. They insisted that they were binding. Which is correct here?

Jacob

Jacob,

Your friends were partially correct. If you had declared that you were going all-in and nobody ahead of you had put in a raise, then your verbal declaration of your bet is indeed binding. Since a player did indeed raise, then the action had changed and therefore your action was no longer binding.

Your actions here constitute both acting out of turn. If you were to do this at the World Series of Poker, you would receive a penalty for your actions. You must wait until you act before making any betting declarations. Otherwise, you are changing the natural course of the game. How do you know that your player that went all-in wasn’t going to just call. He may have indeed had you beat, and then again, he may not. You may have cost yourself bets here.

I was playing in a NL Holdem tournament at my friend’s house the other day and there was a big pot between myself and two other players. One of the players were all-in after the flop and the third opponent and myself checked it down. At showdown, both myself and the third player held A-K and there was an ace on the flop. The all-in player held pocket jacks and was eliminated. Or so we thought. The pot was being divided up between myself and the third player and there was a single $100 chip left. We were no longer using $25 chips and we didn’t know what to do.

One player at the table said that the chip should go into the pot for the next hand. Someone else disagreed and said that the player with the higher suited ace should get the card. Yet another player said that we should play another hand to determine the winner of the chip. Then we had another debate. Since the all-in player had started the hand with more than $100, he felt that he should be dealt in. We felt that only the winners should be in. Finally, we played another hand three way and the all-in player won the hand. He then went on a run and finished in 3rd place. I don’t think that he should have been in the other hand. Did we do this right and if not, what should we have done?

Joey

Joey,

Wow, you guys went through a lot to settle a really simple matter. In Texas Holdem, when there is a chopped pot, the odd chip goes to the player that is closest to the button going from left to right. The player that was all-in and busted had no right whatsoever to this chip. He was eliminated from the game. Whichever of the two of you were the closest to the button should have received the $100 chip. Purchase a copy of Robert’s Rules of Poker.

I have had an ongoing debate with my local minister for quite a while about the morality of poker. He claims that poker is immoral because it promotes covetousness. I try and defend poker in that the players choose whether or not to play and that it is just a game. What are your thoughts on this?

Billy

Billy,

This is a common debate among many religious groups, especially Christians. There is nothing in the Bible that specifically speaks out against a game of chance. In fact, the act of casting of lots was used in many instances to settle disputes, and in one case to determine an apostle.

However, where the argument shifts is when you evaluate some of the negative results that playing poker can cause. For example, if you have a man that will play poker to the exclusion of taking care of his family, then that person is conducting morally reprehensible behavior. If a player gets into a fight over a poker game, then the game gets blamed for the actions. In some cases, people have killed over a poker game.

Poker by itself is not morally wrong. However, when people allow themselves to get involved with activities that are morally wrong as a result of the game, then the game naturally gets viewed as the cause. Some people can play poker all of their life and never do anything morally wrong. Others will enter lives of crime or wind up hooked on gambling and drugs. If you are the type of person where the poker lifestyle may influence you negatively, then perhaps you shouldn’t play.

Is poker immoral? No. Can it lead to immoral behavior? It depends on the person.

I was playing in a Texas Holdem game recently and at the river, both of us had the exact same hand. I had an ace and king of diamonds and my opponent had the ace and king of spades. There was a king on the board and neither of us had a flush. My opponent said that because he had the A-K of spade, he won. I thought that it should be a chopped pot. Another player thought that since I was closest to the dealer button, I should get the pot.

Who was correct and if he was right about the suits mattering, which suits are highest.

Jamie

Jamie,

First, your friends need to learn the rules of Holdem a bit better. When two players have the exact same hand at the river, the pot is chopped. Suits do not matter in determining Texas Holdem hands. Next, your opponent that said you should have gotten the pot due to position was off. The only time this is relevant is if there is a chopped pot with an odd chip. In that case, the odd chip goes to the player closest to the button.

I will go over ranks of suits, but they are only relevant in Stud based games. In seven card stud, there is a bring-in. This means that the player with the lowest card showing on third must put in a forced bet similar to a blind. Sometimes, multiple players have the same low card, such as two players having a deuce. In this case, the tie is broken by the suit.

Suits are ranked in alphabetical order from lowest to highest. Clubs, diamonds, heats, and then spades. However, suits will never determine the winner of a hand in most standard poker games. There are a few oddball games where the lowest spade or club gets half of the pot, but these are not casino games.

Can you help me with a classic debate regarding a sit n go? You are in the big blind with pocket aces and then each and every player at the table proceeds to go all-in and the small blind calls all-in. Most every thinks that you should make the call even thought pocket aces are not as strong against multiple players. If you were in this spot, what would you do?

Grayson

Grayson,

This is a question that I hear proposed by players in regards to the beginning of a tournament, but not in the aspect of a sit n go. In this case, I would actually fold pocket aces, and I will explain why.

First, a common sit n go tournament pays three spots. That means that six players will not make any money whatsoever. While the primary object of any poker game is to win, you cannot win without making the money in any event. In this case, you are looking at a decent chance of making second place money by just folding your cards. While the aces are technically in the lead, the advantage is very small and the value you get by folding is great. For example, if you are playing a $100 sit n go that pays 50% to first, 30% to 2nd and 20% to third, you are looking at an expected value of $300 by making the fold. If the aces hold up, you win 500%, but if you lose, you win 0. By folding, you almost guarantee yourself $300 unless something happens such as a chopped pot. In that case, you may still be guaranteed 3rd place, which is still double your money.

The main disadvantage here is the fact that you would be at a great chip disadvantage. However, the blinds will be so low that you are not out of it. If ever faced with this, make the fold and take the money.

The exception to this would be if the sit n go was a satellite that paid only one spot. In that case, I would make the call. Winning is the only objective and while your edge is not great, you still have an edge going into the flop. Winner takes all is much different than a typical sit n go and requires a bit more risk.

If you are going to be a champion poker player, you need to be able to pick the right spots to risk your tournament life and to double up. Let me give you an example of a situation in Tunica, MS that was key to keeping me in a major WSOP Circuit event.

Play was beginning to approach the end of the 300-600 with 25 ante Level in a NL Holdem tournament. I was in late position and looked down to A-9 suited. I had been waiting patiently for a while for a good hand to try and pick up some chips. I had 850 in chips and needed a pot.

I was intent to go all-in here and then something happened to stop me. Three people limped into the pot. With a hand such as A-9 suited, you really want to be the first player into the pot, especially if you are going all-in. The pot was 1,350 pre-flop before any players come in, so if I could have only one caller, this would be a good time to get lucky. However, odds were that I would face at least four, maybe five other players if the small blind came in.

I decided to wait. I folded my hand and the level completed. The next level was 400-800 with a 50 ante. I had 775 after the ante. The first hand, I was dealt A-6 offsuit. However, this time it was folded to me. I moved all-in and the only player that stayed in was the big blind that held 7-5. I was able to win the pot and was up to 2,500 in chips. A few hands later, I was able to double up again to a respectable stack and then was able to move up to over 12,000 in chips by the end of the level.

Granted, I should have never allowed my stack to get that short, but the point of this story is to point out how that making the right decisions can pay off at the poker table in shoving for your tournament life. Sometimes, just blindly shoving can leave you in a situation where it is next to impossible to win. Picking your spots will help you to stay alive and thrive in NL Holdem tournaments.

Hello,

I’m about to play a casino tournament with 60-70 players and with a starting $2000, in chips. Blinds will be 25/50 and actually will move up every after 15 minutes. I don’t know how I would be playing in case. Anything to share?

Another one, I want to ask your thoughts on how I played a certain hand. Blinds were 100/200. I had about $4000 in chips and with AA in late position. I then raised to $600. There was big blind who went all in with short stack, I remember about $300. A certain player then called. Flop came and was K,9,4 rainbow. The other player checked and so I placed a $600 bet. He folded and great as the pot went to me.

Now, although I actually won over the pot, I’m still wondering if I should have checked the flop and bet the turn instead. What’s your opinion? Also, I would always bet out with a drawing flop however with no chances for draws I may have invited a bet on the turn. Or if not maybe he could have seen weakness if I check after the flop.

Thanks and great site!

All the best,
Markie
Markie,

In a tournament with a fast blind structure, you will either want to loosen up your requirements to try and win a lot of pots early, or really push your big hands. If you play tight and do not pick up any big hands by about level 3 or so, you need to loosen up your starting hand requirements.

As far as your hand is concerned, I would have checked the flop and see if he would bet out. If he didn’t, then I would bet the turn. Of course, what you did had value too since you wanted to make the pot with the all-in player heads up.

Either play in this case would be good in my opinion.

Hello,

I joined a certain NL tourney with 19 players at two tables the other day. Earlier part, it was just actually first round of blinds, I was dealt TT in middle position. Everyone else then folded. Three times the BB, I then raised and got two callers. Flop came and brought J98 all spades. I checked on what I have then and saw I have Ts.

Later, BB checked and I followed. A certain guy placed a very big bet, I believe it was about four times the pot. BB then folded and so am I.

Eventually, a guy I don’t know personally won the pot. He mucked his hand and luckily I was able to take a peek. He had Ad then. I wasn’t able to see the other card he had and he even refused to show me. Well, if he had A K or Q of spades, then sorry for me but if it was something else, maybe I could have won.

What do you think of how I’ve played the game? I think I should have called or have pushed all in, but I’m not sure. Any advice or comment perhaps?

Thanks!

Spike
Spike,

You did not have pot odds to make the call. You had probably 14 outs or 56% to win if you were behind to a pair. Your opponent bet four times the pot. You did not have the odds to call.

It was a good fold.

Luckily I won a seat at the upcoming no limit tourney to be held in Regina, Sk. Canada. The buy in I heard is $1000 and I’m glad as it is going to be on TV. But I’m now bothered as I badly want to win the gold. How should I play then?

To make things clearer, there are two stages. In the first stage, to be able to start out, you need $10,000 in chips. The blind time will be 40 mins and the blinds will begin at 25 / 50. Antes I heard will begin at level 9. The tourney will run for three days and every day only 350 players can play. If you belong to the top 10% at the end of a certain day, you can proceed to the next stage. However, if you lose you can re-buy for the next day. Unfortunately, if it happens that you lose the third day, then sorry as you are already out. In the second stage, everyone will be in the money and approximately 105 will be fighting for the first place with a whooping $350,000 prize. About the chips, well if you have many chips left after passing on the first stage, good for you as it will be accumulated at this stage. However, no deals are prohibited and everyone will be playing on and on till one player remains.

Now, what day do you think should I play? And do you have any strategy in mind to share with me? Please, I hope I could use it for stage one and stage two.

Thank you very much for your time.

I hope to hear from you soon.

Benz
Benz,

First, this is an odd tournament structure. As far as which day, it depends on your style of play. If you are very aggressive and can accumulate chips, the last day may work as the most players typically play that day. If you are tighter, I would play the first two days and loosen your starting hand requirements some.

You need to be in the top 35 at the end of the day. As a result, you need to build up chips. This means playing looser than normal and taking a few more risks. Try and build chips by stealing blind, taking advantage of weaker players, and seeing a lot of flops and punishing when you hit the flop well.

If you won your seat for this tournament, then great, go ahead and play. I wouldn’t play it otherwise.